It had been almost fifteen years since I even thought of those adventures. With the recent OGL situation, I spent a few hours listening to him try to glean information from these adventure, to extract lore he could use to produce newer content. A trip down memory lane... I reached out to him to talk about it and we agreed on a having an interview for his channel live on Twitch.
You can find the whole interview here on YouTube.
I had a lot of fun. I can't wait for the next one.
We will be going live on his Twitch channel February 9 at 1930 EST and go on for a while (could be the next morning).
Since he is involved in the Moonshae Isles for the Adventure League, like I was back in 2007-'10, I thought it would be fun to go back and revisit these adventures. I have like a millions things to say/ respond to based on his videos about the adventures. Many of the oddities he detected had reasons. Well I'm spilling the beans and all the juicy details.
Expect a LOT of information, laughs, and adventure ideas getting dropped. I'm pretty excited about it.
Join us February 9 1930EST for a great time! Ask any question you want.
“You enter the room, bladed wheels spin at eye and shin level throughout the room and the floor moves up and down 5 to 6 inches as though on a wave. At the end of the hall, you see the villain disappear as the opposite door begins to close with the grinding of stone on stone.”
Then your rogue says “I take ten” and obliterates the DC and the group goes on. The encounter sucks. No one remembers it, other than the GM who spent 5h coming up with it. OR the party remembers how they saw you cry in frustration. They remember that they make their GM cry.
Jerks.
Now that we have established that players are jerk, we can proceed.
Have we become that lazy that we remiss all thought and idea of defeating a trap to “we don’t have a rogue” or “I have trapfinding”? I definitely include myself in that group because I have fostered that stereotype, both as a writer and a player/GM.
I make no secret that I really like the idea of skill challenges, perhaps the one thing I will take from 4e into other games. I like the fact that players have to think with things other than combat and a few spells. Pretty much like chases (both as presented by Paizo in the GameMastery Guide and the revised version I posted on this blog).
I am currently working on a new adventure for Legacies and I have come to a place where I would like to create an encounter similar to a skill challenge. Something the players have to overcome that should not end with a single dice roll.
In the dying days of 3.5, we were presented with something similar, but I never thought it was particularly well-thought out. It was clearly a precursor to the better 4e version. Still the idea of an encounter-as-a-challenge has always intrigued me and for the longest time, I have been thinking about a way to put together a simple set of rules to use with Pathfinder/3.X. Clearly a first step towards 4e's skill challenges.
This morning inspiration struck me - smack-dab in the middle of a meeting. What if a system could be devised where the encounter had a number of "points" the PCs have to do in order to complete the challenge?
Like in 4e, there must also be penalties for failing, something that endeared me to the original system. I am a strong proponent of the system where the whole party had to do something rather than watch the guy with the good skill do his thing. Standing around and doing nothing should not be what anyone in these situations do. I can imagine these challenges to have an environmental element, something that cannot easily be compelled or controlled.
Like in my previous breakdown of the chase, a good description of what his happening is crucial to allow the PCs to be creative and evolve. Not just to make the encounter exciting, but also to make them know and understand the difficulties and plant the seeds of idea of how they can resolve or help the challenge. Nothing is worse than an endless stream of dice rolling, taking 1d6 damage, and then more dice rolling. I get angry just thinking about such things.
Also, unlike chases, at higher level especially, they may have magical support – through spell or item – that allows them to bypass your trap. Personally, I believe that traps work best at lower level. To make them work are higher level requires too much nerfing (no teleport, no summoning, no this, no that, no dog, no ninjas, no nothing) that the traps becomes either ridiculous, meaningless, or they fall in the category of “typical traps”.
A willingness to allow the PCs to use their skills in unconventional ways will also go a long way to encourage players to be creative. That is true of everywhere in the game, not just here. The GM’s role is to make the world come to life. It is not (just) to slay and beat up the players.
Similar to my chase rules, the DC must represent and challenge the party. Therein lies the difficulty of balancing everything...
More on this topic tomorrow!
JP
This post is a conclusion of my own adventures at GenCon 2013. For the first part, follow this link.
I woke up still in the dark of night. I must've been really tired cuz I can honestly say that I slept pretty well. Up and about in a short interval and back to Gencon. I did a mandatory stop as the Starbucks (I hadn't slept THAT well). I managed to reach Gencon around 8:30 which allowed me to walk around, get into the early slots. Looking thru my program the only thing I knew where to find was PFS. So I showed up!
I met Karim-M the VC from France and an all-around nice guys. I had been talking with Karim since the days of LFR but never met him face-to-face. Spoke with Florent some more, nearly mustered with my current VC, Chad and his lovely fiancée. I was bouncing back and forth until I finally sat down with Lynn-R whom I hadn't seen in years. We had a fun adventure with our wacky band of heroes going through the Secrets Stones Keep. Wolfina reach 8th level, making my spread: 15, 13, 11.2, 10.2, 10, 8, 5, 4 (but will jump to 6 shortly) and "the rest".
I liked the idea that Paizo thought to offer French-speaking (and Spanish-speaking) tables but these need to be mustered more clearly. I'm not sure that one of the French tables went off, to my chagrin. I will admit that I was not particularly looking for them myself, though playing with Karim or Florent would've been really cool. It didn't happen, oh well.
We finished the game around 1pm, which gave me 3 full hours to travel through the dealers' room. I pass through most of them without stopping: I was not looking for the same stuff I can get at my local games store... There were a few interesting surprises. I got to speak briefly with Henry Lopez from PCI, with Danny about the Grande Temple of Jing (I can't wait for my copy to arrive), spoke with the guys from Cool Mini or Not as well as a number of smaller miniature companies about their games and products. There are a few I would've bought but the minis I liked were sold out. DANG. I got to talk with Charlie Krank and Paul from Chaosium.
I also learned that Reaper will make another million bucks this year by running another one of their "Bones" Kickstarter. This time I will NOT miss it... I will have enough minis to give the kids! Then I'll be the best dad ever!
I did not really spend much time at the booths of the big guys: Paizo, Privateer Press and I avoided Games Workshop - though I did look at their boring and uninsipired display. Why? Because Paizo was not offering anything special or new. The GenCon exclusive from Privateer was of no interest to me - unlike last year's - and well I don't buy GW unless its second hand - and even then...
I was about to go home when I spotted my one and only purchase: I bought the last of the Razor Coast Miniatures! I got me two minor weresharks and the cover girl pirate. Now I have to build a character for her! Really a nice model! You can expect to find her posted here in the near future.
Here are a few pictures I took at Gencon. Things I was impressed with - or remembered to take a picture of. (the latter being more accurate)
I'm looking particularly at CMoN here... They are asking for more money for their new "Wrath of Kings" games. While the art and the models look awesome, I will not participate in that one. Not until I get my Relic Knight models. I've been waiting for almost a year for them when they were supposed to be out in March. While I can understand delays and design issues, you don't start another similar project with the first one unfinished.
I told the guys there about it and while I do not expect them to do anything about my case, I'll keep my money for that one.
I did not agree - or participate in Paizo's two Kickstarter but they delivered what they promised their backers. Same with Reaper.
One thing that struck me was the lack of understanding of the new rules. Perhaps it is because the new rules had come out just before the con - but I don't think that's the case. I think the rules intrinsically transform what PFS is. We now move from a campaign where the players worked for their factions above all to a group of generic adventures with minor affinity.
Unlike NeoExodus Legacies, which was based on that premise, the PFS transformation does not feel natural. Even this meta-plot where the Society joins the Crusade of Mendev does not feel natural, more like "flavor of the year."
I'm sure that after yr5, we will all be fully equiped and ready never to meet a demon ever again! That's too bad.
So far, this feels very bland. The lack of factions really takes away one of the elements I liked best about the campaign. Now its... well bland.
Perhaps one of the elements that really did not help me with that vision are some of my GMs. One seemed more interested in going to sleep than to run a game. Another one did not know the monsters (on a 5-9) where we just destroyed everything, encounters after encounters when I *KNEW* the monsters had a ton of really nasty abilities. They just became a bland thug encounter: Like a dragon only fighting with its claws when it has a number of spell-like abilities that can destroy the party. I was not impressed by the PFS GMs. And I just expected the GMs to be... better. For 32$ a slot (counting me entry badge), I expected more. Even counting 6$/slot... You have to be on your A-game throughout the weekend. There is simply no excuse, you must put on your game face (though I'll pardon the sick GM as I was there myself and it really sucks).
I'll admit that the item logsheet is just a piece of junk. It assumes players are cheating and encourages GMs to be jerks. I will have to generate one electronically so I don't have to carry all that paperwork. When adding paperwork, I always ask myself: What are you trying to fix? Here, I can see they are trying to make it easier for new players to deal with that. But it is annoying to old players (like me). I will not have one of those useless things, esp since I rarely ever make any purchases at the game table (or I do so at the start of the adventure).
This one is not Paizo's Fault or the volunteers' fault. However, I have never seen anything so disorganized or completely impossible to understand.
First off, must was inside the room (fine), under the iconic banners (fine), however each slot there were 3 or 4 of these banners that mustered the same game! So you had to walk around and hope to find somewhere. I realize there were many adventures to muster, but why not have all of the same adventures be in one place - or close to each other. Not sure what they wanted to do here, but mustering was the most confused I ever saw at a con. Not the best experience.
However, once everyone you had a table, the marshalls did a good job of seating you quickly. Kudos on that!
You would no believe the number of people who, in so many words vowed eternal loyalty and patronage to Paizo. While I'm sure Paizo loves this, I have to wonder about the accuracy. As most of them in the same breath say they will never buy a single WotC product again.
I strive for people to play RPGs (so *I* can play RPGs), for people to try different games, and for the best idea to win.
Right now the best D&D product out there is Pathfinder. Will it remain so in 2 years? Will Paizo jump the shark and make everything suck? I do not know. With 5e looming large these declaration of eternal servitude may be misplaced. Play and encourage people to play Pathfinder, yes. But don't make plans spanning 50 years.
I mean after 4 years of Pathfinder, the game is bloated. There are so many products, so much lore, so many game options that when I hear of the new stuff that comes out (esp stuff that is not in their Core book line), I shrug and reply "not in my campaign" before quickly moving on. This is very much like 3.5 was in its dying days. Are we about to see Pathfinder version 2? I think the signs are there. Unlike 5e (see later), I have a strong belief in Erik, Jason, SRM and SKR to bring us a great product.
I will admit to being the first to not like that edition (4e) of the game, but really people. Stop talking about it. No one want to know how much it sucked and how much you did not like it. A story I heard SO often throughout GenCon, to the point where I had to become its defender and clarify that it was "not all bad and it had a number of points and some new ideas that even Pathfinder took.
As a whole it wasn't for me, but it did have a number of nice things (I'm a fan of the Standard-move-minor breakdown among other thing). Even Pathfider vs. 4e vs 5e are old and passed. There is NO argument that has not been heard.
I just thought it was such a role-reversal where I has to defend the game and paint it in a positive light. Just for fun, rather than trying to bash it, try to find the elements that worked for it. Really it is an exercise I did myself and though it did not make me suddenly fall in love with the game, it gave me perspective and a new enjoyment for 3.5/Pathfinder.
For all the smack talk that 4e brought (on both sides), one great thing it did was to force us to think about what we liked and why. The OSR would never have happened or been as big without it. We had a number of people who had to rethink what they liked, didn't like. And that could've been the biggest and best thing about 4e.
This one is related to the previous rant, really. Bashing and destroying 5e before its out is like blasting next year's McLaren F-1 cars this year. It's futile and we just don't know how it will turn out. I'm cautiously optimistic about it myself - and that's my official position. I choose to reserve judgment until I get a "real" product in my hands to decide (which will likely be a PDF prior to me buying it). WotC seems to have done a lot of soul-searching and this could be what brings them back on top. So far, I have not involved myself too much in the playtest simply because, well I don't want to and second, my limited gaming time is spent playing established game system. But I also understand and support those who really want to try and participate in the playtest (even if the public phase is coming to an end).
Okay, okay, I am quite willing to bet that when 5e comes out, WotC will skyrocket to the top of the gaming world again. How long they remain there is a mystery, but I'm sure that they will be the talk of the town for the first 6 months to a year, if not more. It will be a time of transition for the gaming community where old ideas will be shuffled and rethought.
Beyond that 6month/1year timeframe, we get into the speculation: what will Paizo do to react? will there be another big name that rises? etc. That's like saying to a bunch of history nerds "You know, if Hitler had waited for 1942 to attack Russia, the world would be German right now..."
For the LOVE OF GOD, do NOT say that... or you are in for endless arguments. Like saying something like "The First Edition of Traveller is when gaming reached perfection..."
I guess the big question I have to ask myself is the following: Do I want to go back next year?
Without a doubt, the answer is "YES!" Although I plan on offering some Legacies there, I think I will split my play-time between Witch Hunter/Arcanis (I hope) and PFS. I will also bring my kids for Sunday, get them exposed to a little gaming. Next year will be a full-time attendance of course. No 2 day trek.
Overall and whetever my ranting seems to indicate, I really enjoyed myself and met a lot of great people - some I knew some I didn't - but I can only encourage you to come.
JP
Monday, I got a tweet that pointed me to the following article by Paco Garcia Jean talking about "Is it WotC's responsibility to bring new people to the hobby?"
The question at first prompts a simple "yeah, unless they're stupid" type of answer (which I admit was the one I had). But as you start thinking about it some more, the question is not that simple to answer. And Paco's expose is very good.
Richard Whipple's opinion:
The hobby is shrinking and it is because of the attitude of WotC towards the game industry and the edition wars that ensue every time there is a new D&D edition release. Dungeons & Dragons is still the flagship and gateway game by default and people recognize the brand, whereas other games are not recognized, thus if you try to use another game to introduce people to the hobby, people won’t be interested since there won’t be any familiarity. WotC doesn’t do enough to bring people into the hobby – instead, it’s just trying to bring players back and not expanding the demographics of the hobby. |
I both agree and disagree with Richard.
I do not believe the hobby is shrinking, I think it is growing, but in a more diluted form than what many of us now-longer-so-young gamers used to see. In the old days, everyone would play board games, table-top (which was usually D&D or AD&D), bizarre card games, etc. If you were geeky enough, you would play whatever would be brought for the entertainment. Nowadays, many gamers won't bother to show up unless you play the specific version of the setting they like. Forget about bringing the games' club together for "whatever night".
I admit I'm super guilty of this... I won't show up for 4e games, won't show up for board or card games, but I try to attend most other RPG events. I'm a war gaming guy and a table top guy, and will (try to) participate in those events. This dilution of the gamer pool certainly help the "hobby is getting smaller" opinion.
Next, I agree with him that D&D's brand as a whole is getting smaller. Good computer games, like the gold boxes where the game mimics the table top closely - or closer than first-person shooters and RTS - have gone away. Now we have DDO (which I liked, but it didn't really feel like D&D, more like "D&D-flavored water", and with the latest upgrade gone too 4eish to my taste so I stopped playing and gone back to... BLOOD BOWL!!!), the reviews for the latest Atari 4e game were just DISASTROUS, so even the 14$ price tag allowed me to safely leave it on the shelf. The D&D movies were not exactly great - I think they were better than most SyFy movies, but not Willow or Arny-Conan great!
His final comment... That WotC seeks to bring players back is really what lead to the disaster of 4e. A lot of the old guard - myself - dropped 4e like a sack of unwanted goblin steak. With that old guard walking away, they did not have these die-hard fans who would support the game. When most of the "old time GMs" start running something else, you need to scramble to find a GM who is willing to put the time to run AND who can do a good job of it.
In all fairness, I think Colorado was blessed with a number of old timers who enjoyed 4e enough to keep it going strong for much longer than other, much bigger markets. There are a number of GMs with whom I like to play, most of them are older, more experience guys who have played for years. I'll give a shout out to Mario (Warhammer), everyone from the NIGA (Non-Irish Gamers Association who GM'd: Kristian, Christophe, Darryl) and locally, there is Lenny and Stu whom I always enjoy playing under. Now don't go flaming me if your name is not on the list... I only mentioned guys who I played with more regular games.
Over the past year or so (and with the announcement of 5e), I have come to the realization that the edition war lies squarely on WotC's shoulders, at least the initial salvoes. I remember talking to Lenny who was a Gencon 2007 when they announced the death of Living Greyhawk, the death of 3.5 and the coming of 4 as the savior of all RPG-kind. I felt... I felt offended by what they were saying. Then reading blogs, comments and forums only convinced me that I felt attacked, that the outcry for the terrible overall product the 3.5 was, which really offended me. 3.5 had flaws, but it wasn't THAT bad... especially when you don't have an alternative that's out there right away! That we had to wait about a year before we got to see what was offered (okay I got to see it early and I didn't really like it then either). But that's the thing... if you are gonna blast it, provide something to replace it right away, not promises.
Which does explain why they have been VERY careful when they talk about 5e, which is encouraging because they now know that without the old guard they don't have the critical mass to maintain their product. That's good to see.
This is something I never paid to much attention to. However when doing my interviews with Organized Play People, I realized that the brand itself is beloved by a lot of people. More than I expect. My parents still say I play "dungeons" no matter what it is I play. As such, yes people have a rough idea what you do when you say "I play Dungeons & Dragons" more than "I play Gurps/Pathfinder/Robotech/whatever else".
When did you see an ad for D&D anywhere outside a gaming magazine? Okay, those ads in comics, when did they look interesting and not a bunch of kids about to discover what comes out of the box when "pop goes the weasel" finished playing...
Even more telling, google "4e D&D ad" or "4e D&D marketing" looking for images... You'll get wrestlers, cos-players and a lot material you don't really care for... But little in the ways of advertisement. And what you find looks a lot like: Click on the links to see them in full glory...
I know. It's scary...
The one from the 80s is odd... it looks a little like those ads for the x-ray goggles that would allow you check out girls' underwear (why else would you need them?). It's not great, but it was in the spirit of the time. I mean you have these oddly shaped characters walking through a town... The two guys look like they are planning some nefarious activity. Not what you want to see and the young kids there seem to be having seizures of happiness. Again scary for parents. And what does the text let you know? Once you have the basic, you're hooked you can become an EXpert? Now what is that?
But it was the 80s, a lot of what we did back then didn't require strict scrutiny. Surely, the recent one would...
*FACEPALM*
The 4e one doesn't even let me know what else I could be doing in a significant way. So... I'm going to meet people in person and... what? play? do the same thing? That add is just scary bad because it doesn't tell you what the problem is. It seems like an ad for sex addicts anonymous... I'd be worried about going there.
After all this, I think the initial response of "yeah, unless they're stupid" still makes a lot of sense!
Because like any creator/manufacturer of product, they need to maintain and grow their client base. How do they do that? by creating material that is aimed at new players. By giving people something that will intrigue them enough to fork hundreds of dollars into this hobby. They are the gateway into the world of RPG, want it or not, like it or not, they are. Schools, youth events, friends will often talk to you about D&D before you head out to the store to buy that memorable first D&D product...
Because of their "regal" status among RPG, they are the ones people compare themselves to. When you create a new game: a number of concepts and elements will come or be created in opposition to something in D&D.
Don't like the D20 skill system? Make if D100!
Hit points bother you? Replace it with a system of health by location!
AC? Thac0? Claw, claw, bite? Again, many other games are designed "in opposition" to D&D. My own NeoExodus was designed with a similar thought process: Let's do something that is similar but not the same as Paizo's Golarion! And go from there.
WotC has to be good shepherds of the gaming community. Not just because it makes sense, but because it will help them in the long run. Why is Paizo currently the top publisher in the game industry? Why/how did they overtake something that seemed impossible just 2 years ago? They made themselves be good shepherds of the herd that we are. They put themselves out there, answered questions, made themselves available AND they published quality products. I won't go into the specifics of why Paizo rocks at this time, but suffice to say that the biggest thing is that Paizo HAS DELIVERED what they promised. Remember the Virtual Table Top for 4e? PDFs?
Then again, it's not *JUST* WotC's place to be the sole bringer of new players to the hobby. That would be unfair. While they have the name and the following, we, as a community are no responsible to it. We have to be good shepherds, includers and ambassador to the game. Whatever your game of choice, there are people who need/want to play. By being inclusive, by talking to them, you grow interest.
One of the things I keep telling my players and GMs is that if you want to set up a game, set it in public. In a game store. When players see people playing, they will want to buy and try it out. Don't only plan massive 12-year campaigns that no one who starts will ever finish. Plan short one-shots. Get people playing. Get people excited. That's what we need to do. Don't hide in your dark basement with you 20 year old edition of Champion and wonder why no one ever comes to play. Make it easy.
Sure, true, the game environment in a store is not as cool as in your basement you tricked out with light and sound effects. But for those who don't know you, its a lot less worrisome.
It's not just WotC's role to bring in new people... no.
It's all of us, WotC included. For the new person that comes in to play D&D could be at your Pathfinder table tomorrow! (They should, anyway).
JP
When I started this whole thinking process few weeks ago, I had an idea and I wanted to see whether my master plan could be applied to all products. However, as the conversation evolved and more input was added to it, what I came to realize was that with the variety of organized play campaigns out there, nearly every play style was catered to and the variety of systems and campaign goals was pretty wide.
Now, different campaigns mean different strokes for different folks, and the can only benefit the community in the end. By making a comparative presentation, it is my hope that you, my readers, can find and promote locally the OP campaign that you prefer. We talked about Organized Play in a manner that was system-less, focusing on game play and what GMs were allowed, not allowed and methods of empowering them to allow them to shine.
This conversation took place between the following people appearing in alphabetical order. Many of whom you will recognize from previous chats on this blog, and a few new faces. They are all known faces and names in the field of Organized Play campaigns.
Teos Abadia (Ashes of Athas) Interview
Jay Babcock (Living Divine) Interview Part 2
Kitty Curtis (Legends of Arcanis) Interview Part 2
Cory Mills (Legend of the Five Rings) Interview Part 2
Steven "Bull" Ratkovich (Shadowrun Missions)
Pieter Sleijpen (Living Forgotten Realms) Interview (with Dave Kay, former campaign admin)
James Stepanek (Serial Pulp) Interview
When I started this whole thinking process about two weeks ago, I had an idea and I wanted to see whether my masterplan could be applied to all products. However, As the conversation evolved and more input was added to it, what I came to realize was that with the variety of organized play campaigns out there, nearly every play style was catered to and the variety of systems and campaign goals was pretty wide.
Now, different campaigns mean different strokes for different folks, and the can only benefit the community in the end. By making a comparative presentation, it is my hope that you, my readers, can find and promote locally the OP campaign that you prefer. We talked about Organized Play in a manner that was system-less, focusing on game play and what GMs were allowed, not allowed and methods of empowering them to allow them to shine.
This conversation took place between the following people appearing in alphabetical order. Many of whom you will recognize from previous chats on this blog, and a few new faces. They are all known faces and names in the field of Organized Play campaigns.
Although in different ways, everyone agreed that the goal of this is to provide a fun experience for everyone involved. The how varies, but that is the obvious end goal. Talking with these guys really bring out their passion and really makes for a dynamic conversation to say the least.
Everyone strives to make their campaign unique and successful. This is where I see a lot of variety and really opens makes it so that we - the players - get to pick and choose campaigns we like best.
One thing that came up multiple times was the "GM who ignores whatever is written" and run his own version, completely ignoring the adventure. This subject was heavily debated without a solution that really satisfied everyone. Although this happens in every campaign, I believe that this is the minority, that most GMs do a good job or running and keeps changes to a minimum and keep closely to the written script.
Two elements really popped that I think we should separate that in their own word, every campaign administrator separated.
First, the Fluff, or the story itself has almost everyone agreeing that all major story points should be kept unchanged, or altered as little as possible. These points, in campaigns that focus heavily on a bigger story (I'm thinking of Living Divine and Arcanis), can really hurt the campaign (and the player's involvement) if the PCs fail to learn or experience a critical event.
Second, the Crunch, the crunch or system-specific numbers (things like hit points, armor, number of monsters) see more versatility and GM freedom. Some campaigns prefer to keep it simple: run as is; others give GMs near total freedom while a third group provide the GM with guidelines on how to adjust (either in the adventure or in their campaign documentation).
But don't take my word for it. Here is what THEY had to say about it.
The general position is: "In the Gamemaster we trust". We have to put our faith in our GMs to do what is best for the adventure and for the players sitting down at the table. And if that means changing things up to handle whatever the players bring to teh table, so be it. At the end of the day we want to provide a challenge to the players, but we also want them to have fun. And if it's not fun, then we (both the Gamemaster and the Missions development team) have failed.
Our guidelines are simple.
1. GMs should hit all the major plot points in the adventure, even if they go "off book" a bit. Seasonal Missions are designed to be complete adventures by themselves, but they serve as part of a larger storyarc as well. So we encourage GMs to play out all the major events, so that players don't miss out on anything.
2. Players get a Debriefing Log at the end of each adventure that the Gamemaster should sign. on this Log the GM should note anything major that happens "off book", so that later GMs can see it and incorporate it (or at least know that the GM really DID let them steal an attack helicopter).
We ask DMs to stick to the adventure's plot and to not rewrite the adventure (don't put in new encounters, don't change the monsters, etc.) but you can play with how many monsters you use, etc. In AOA the text of the adventures really allows for whatever is fun - that's the real goal. If it isn't pleasing your table, don't do it. We expect home play DMs, for example, to often hack up the adventure and do different things, and that's ok. We see pretty wide improvisation at cons, which is cool. Because in AOA rewards are specifically tied to the adventures and chapters (you level every chapter, you only earn what is specifically granted) anything else they do is just for fun.
With Ashes of Athas we took DME a bit further (than LFR) by more formally writing it into the player and DM guidance documents, plus making it clear in each encounter that the DM can make alterations for fun. We do this by first stating the intended challenge level of the encounter, then suggesting various things DMs can do, including several suggestions to scale the difficulty. It becomes really clear that it is up to the DM to create fun play. We're very happy with how it has gone and continually increase this aspect. We have recently had adventures where there is mapless combat and the DM is encouraged to play around with the particulars, for example. So yes, our DME policy has absolutely been something that influences our design and that of our authors.
Arcanis has judge empowerment and common sense. Stat-wise, do whatever is going to be the most fun for the players. If the players are going to completely wipe out an encounter which is clearly supposed to be a challenge, and the group really enjoys combat, the judge should ramp it up. If it was supposed to be a routine encounter, but due to mustering they are having a hard time with it, the judge should bring it down. This is stated explicitly in the core rulebook, the Bestiary, and our Campaign Guide.
Plot is where we are sticklers, especially in our core story line. The core story line has a *lot* of foreshadowing, but some of it is pretty subtle, so a judge who hasn't read the entire story arc isn't necessarily able to tell what can be swapped out.
Living Divine is particularly niche, and all of our content is heavily vetted to make it uniform with where we want to be. When a player sits down at one of our tables, they have a reasonable expectation of what they are getting. I find it makes our crowd of 'customers' smaller, but happier overall.
A judge at any given table doesn't know all of our intentions, our symbolism, the history and content of every scenario. It's just not possible. If they start improvising a whole new scenario, they're likely to break some of that. To this end, our Gamemaster Guide lays out what we expect: If it's in the scenario, play it as is. However, there are section of the scenario that are left intentionally skeletal (for instance, you're at point A... get to point B, then point C). Those are for you to improvise. Just don't mention mimes and clowns, or energy drinks, as their appearance is tied tightly into our symbolism.
One of the big things with LD is color. Color *never* appears in an LD scenario, unless it is meaningful, and only in the context of living immortals. If the text mentions two NPCs having a staredown, one dressed in all white and the other in all black, there is special significance there. Now, traditionally, that would be a good guy and a bad guy squaring off... but, in our world, white signifies control, and black the unknown... so, that's more likely the current ruler being challenged by an unfamiliar opponent.
Now, if a judge starts adlibbing, and adds in all sorts of color references, that breaks down. It implies meaning that isn't supposed to be there.
Combats: the biggest problem is again, a lack of knowledge about our intent. A judge may see a combat against a squad of stormtroopers as life-threatening, and may softball it, so the PCs don't risk death. But what if the point of that combat was to convince them to run when they later run into a larger group of them?
For me, the biggest argument not to meddle too much with actual fights is that sometimes players like to brag a bit/feel rewarded for their choices (especially when they are niche choices) and modifying fights on the fly to get the proper challenge does invalidate the choice of players somewhat. Hence I pay close attention to why something is making something particular easy or hard and how much influence players have over those factors. It is one thing to keep things as is when the players lack burst attacks with a home group that always play together, but another when you are running that same adventure during a convention for a last minute table where two people joined so that 3 people with a ticket can actually play. Making such judgment calls at a convention is hard though, and in that regards, I seldom make them since chances are that indeed the designers/developers did a good job at their intended challenge level ;) Still, each time I hear a DM tell he dazed the same PC over and over because he kept rolling that 5 or 6 on the recharge dice and that PC was known to be the most effective to the monsters I cringe.
Now that I gave my personal opinion. The official opinion for LFR is not too different, but there are rules in regards to what can and cannot be changed (you can find those on-line btw). You can add/remove existing monsters, you can definitely play around with tactics. You cannot redesign monsters, or add new monsters (whether as an addition or replacement).
It should be noted that even though GMs abusing DME are relatively rare, it is apparently common and extreme enough for two major organized campaigns (LFR and Pathfinder) to change their rules and take a stricter stance. In LFR the reason was definitely that a few people did some very extreme things at large public conventions that forced us to change the rules.
I know that basically every GM runs their adventures/modules/encounters/everything differently from every other GM, and while the official modules for the campaign are written fairly specifically in terms of mechanics and interaction, I honestly think that it only matters in the context of the campaign as a whole. Essentially, if a GM completely changes an NPC in a module to fit their table better (or because they have a creative idea, or they don’t get the intention of the NPC, or for whatever reason), it only really matters in as much as that NPC may appear in future modules. It is highly recommended that the GMs make clear to the players after the module any changes that they made, so that the players understand what the rest of the campaign is dealing with, but I don’t think it’s possible to police every single table. And, as much as I would love to, I cannot run every single table personally, so it is absolutely imperative that I trust the GMs to run the mods for their groups.
Ultimately, if the players have fun, the game is a success.
Serial Pulp, being rather small has some luxuries that other campaigns don’t have. Our pool of GMs is selected by me, and I know them well. They are all very good, and are capable of dealing with things on the fly. Also the fact that it is a focused RP campaign, with a general sentiment that killing PCs is highly discouraged sets a different tone. All of this means I trust my GMs to ramp things up if necessary but still keep it in line. The modules are generally written with this assumption in mind. Combats are generally written in such a way as to be adapted to party size and composition. Encounters do not have hard scripting.
Given how people build characters (often almost completely combat ineffective), it’s necessary to grant that kind of flexibility to the GMs to adapt on the spot. Were the campaign to be a lot larger, and with a pool of GMs that I would not all know, I can’t imagine it would work. In some ways it’s pretty hard on GMs, but we’re lucky enough to have the people to pull it off. I think part of that luxury comes from how Doyce set the tone when he started the campaign, and as long as someone is familiar with the campaign, they will likely be capable of running it and keeping that tone (given as certain level of GM quality).
When I started this I thought that we could wrap something up, all agree on something, but the more the conversation went on, the less I believed this could happen. That what works for one campaign may not work for all of them. There is not even big vs small cohesion, D&D vs. Non-D&D settings.
And thinking back on it, that's a good thing!
It means that when you play one campaign, you submit in to a certain paradigm that may or may not apply in another. It gives options. It gives variety. It makes it so new ideas always come into the pool. Organized play campaigns are not one-size-fits all, they are tailored to the personality, likes and goals of their administrators - and their players. While you may or not like something about one campaign, you may find something else to your taste. For example I've been bitching about Arcanis' D12 initiative on which I am starting to come around (but don't tell the PCI people). Similarly I'd like to see Pathfinder Society have a more involved storyline, like Arcanis. But at the same time, it makes me miss those elements and bring me back to them when I play other things.
And that really gives our hobby - and its organized play culture in particular - a unique vitality, a dynamism that is unique in its uniqueness.
Thanks to everyone who participated in the discussion, let's keep the lines of communication open. I found the discussion extremely interesting.
I am very grateful that everyone in these campaign works so hard to bring ME a lot of options to play and participate.
You really didn't think I was that altruistic, did you?
JP
When Teos, Chad and I had this talk, the news that smashed through the internet about 5e. The 5e news, prevented me from posting this... Still, the rest of this interview is fun and vastly informative.
JP: Why do you think a complete newcomer to organized play should join Ashes of Athas?
TA/CB: Our campaign allows you to create one PC and then have your experience be a single story. We provide periodic level bumps so you won't fall behind if you play casually. Each adventure has a different Death Certificate that helps you rejoin the campaign if your PC dies without feeling like you lost everything you had previously learned and earned. Limited PC options mean it isn't so hard to create a character. Limited magic and the style of play means the game doesn't revolve around extremely optimized PCs.
JP: Why should an old grumpy player - yes... think of me as that grumpy old troll - what is the biggest strength of Ashes of Athas?
TA: The Dark Sun setting is really fun and we try to highlight what Athas is about in ways that are fun for players new or accustomed to OP. AoA story awards are full of flavor and shape future play. There is a ton of story and RP.
JP: How did you become a campaign administrator? Why?
TA: I swore I would never be an admin, but I do really love organized play. I wanted to do my part to contribute the same way so many others have done. It is a job with far too few "thank you"s and incredible amounts of free work, but I could not say "no" to helping other people love Dark Sun.
CB: I served as an LG Triad member happily until I moved away from my region, so I perhaps had some better idea of what I was getting myself into. As I mentioned before, I had explored the idea of trying to start a `Campaigns'-style Dark Sun campaign on my own, which is probably how I got hooked into AoA. At the time, I was looking for a way to spread the truly great experiences that 4e D&D and LFR could offer to a group - judge and players - that was willing and able to play the adventure, rather than complete the module.
If we stopped AoA right now, I'd be happy with what we've done, just in showing people that the same great D&D I played since 2nd Edition still works great in 4e (and now it's doesn't have to kill the DM!).
JP: What are you main duties as part of the campaign?
TA/CB: We all work together to create the story. We then identify authors and each admin works with one to assist them with the authoring process. We edit and develop the adventures. We promote the campaign and work to keep in touch with fans on the forums.
JP: In an average week, roughly how much time do you devote to campaign-related duties?
TA: It varies greatly from just a couple of hours in a week to more than 20/week during crunch time. We work really hard on adventure quality.
JP: A difficult one: I give you a magic wand and you can only use it to make your campaign better... What do you do?
TA: I make myself more efficient and smarter at design. I would like to do a better job of providing information to DMs and players on the setting. I would like to see more Wizards of the Coast employees playing the campaign so they understand OP well (several played at D&DXP). I would like to find ways to have the campaign revolve around players even more (coming up with new ideas and refining them takes time).
CB: If Teos is smarter and more efficient, that gives us even more time and ability to break down the boundaries that so often lead to the typical "organized play as lowest common denominator D&D" experience. If you can't tell, I think this is actually our biggest contribution to organized play (just ahead of `give people a chance to play Dark Sun').
The most nagging lack I typically see in the version of AoA without the magic wand is "How do we give the PCs important choices, and make them matter?".
JP: Play, GM or write? Which do you enjoy best?
TA: I love to contribute in whatever form is needed. If I play, I hope my play helps other players have a great time. If I DM, I hope I really bring them a great experience. If I write, I hope what I do furthers the cause of crafting good adventures and honors those from whom I stole.
CB: I really like, want, and need all three, so I try to adjust things so that all three are satisfied. In practice, GMing for me is usually mostly part of Playing or Writing (this is probably the main thing I like about 4e - DMing can be more about playing, even above 12th level).
JP: Any known people associated with the campaign?
TA: Having Chris Sims as an admin is great. He has a really amazing understanding of RPGs, story, and editing. Chad has great living campaign experience and is an excellent author. We are of common mind on many things. Derek has great ideas and tremendous experience in other types of RPGs and games. Shawn Merwin is a mentor to me and I often come to him with questions about organized play, editing, etc. I also have to thank the people that have volunteered, authored, and playtested. We have a Yahoo list where people can volunteer and I hope they know how vital they have been to the campaign. Small things are really big when you are short on time. Death Certificates and Story Awards are the types of things that happened because volunteers gave us enough time to create them back in Chapter One. One guy making a map for us can have a really big effect.
JP: Do you have any links to websites where people might learn more about the campaign?
The guys provided me with three links:
JP: Can we hope to see an "Ashes Of Athas" published book, either by WotC or by a 3PP under license?
TA: Unlikely. WotC prefers to really have organized play be special and not available in other means. I don't really disagree with that.
JP: When I first read about AoA, it was to be a "big con only" event, something that would run at DDXP, Gencon and Origins. This changed pretty quickly after the campaign’s kickoff. Why did you do so?
TA: I think it had to do with Dave Christ hearing many people desiring to have a home play option coupled with Wizards being open to the idea of a limited window when each chapter could be requested and played.
CB: We're still mostly a "big con event" campaign, but no longer exclusive. That's been driven by player demand and Wizard's willingness, both of which are gratifying.
JP: How many adventures does the campaign produce per year?
TA/CB: 9 (three chapters per year, with each chapter having three adventures. Chapters are released at D&DXP, Origins, and Gen Con). We periodically consider other opportunities that could extend the play experience.
JP: Are you looking for authors?
TA: Always! They should contact us and provide their level of experience with writing, their knowledge of Dark Sun, their expertise with 4E, and any organized play experience. You don't need all or any of those necessarily, but we do want to understand that you can create a quality adventure and understand the commitment involved. There is no pay, but you reach thousands, tell your story, and get to improve organized play! My own AoA work has opened doors to writing articles for both Dragon and Dungeon.
JP: What is the campaign’s link to WotC and/or the RPGA? Did you have talks with them about using their IP?
TA: Baldman Games is contracted to provide content at the three large D&D conventions. Ashes of Athas is part of the content that Baldman Games provides and thus can use official IP (using OGL would mean we could not use the Dark Sun setting, as setting is part of their non-open IP). We are careful around distribution (adventures can only be distributed through the web site in a controlled fashion during a limited window). None of this has been a negative for us. Wizards has been great to work with and we continue to have an open dialogue around how best to coordinate and support organized play. The legal side of things can be confusing for those that don't understand these issues, but we feel really good about what this all means for us creatively and for gamers in general.
CB: On the content side, we haven't been asked to avoid or include anything; we've basically been given free rein.
JP: When writing an adventure or plotting a storyline, how do you go about doing it?
TA: I'm really story driven. I tend to envision a story and then begin hanging fun bits on that story. Whether a combat or a skill scene, I want encounters to feel like part of the narrative. Any part of an adventure, when summarized to one paragraph, should be a cool tale and stimulate the imagination.
JP: Why 4e instead of a 3.5 or Pathfinder adaptation?
TA: Because Pathfinder fans are a bunch of... ha, ha! Totally kidding. I truly despise the edition wars. We are all gamers and we all love RPGs. Fighting x edition is really destructive to our hobby's growth. Pathfinder is really good. I love what Paizo does and I admire much of what the company does. At the same time, I played 3E for a long time and I'm worn out on it. I play a hybrid 4E/3E home game called Enlightened Grognard (www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/299297-introducing-enlightened-grognard.html) and while I love the system, I still find the "attack it with my axe again" to be a step back and a bit boring (EG works to mitigate that with a cool token system). Ashes of Athas uses 4E because Wizards wants content that is based in 4E for their conventions (no surprise there!). I have run AoA for players that have played only 1E, only 3E, only Pathfinder, and others who are sworn off of 4E... and they all had a fantastic time. Edition wars shackle the gaming community, as does any form of hatred.
CB: I have a pet theory about the RPG community, based on 20+ years of observation, which I'll summarize by saying: The RPG Community needs to have at least two games at any one time. Because so much of our efforts and discussion are driven by comparing and creating differences (i.e. Game Alpha is Game Beta, but with X and Y and without Z). The `Edition Wars' are still `hot' because the two games that exist right now are Dungeons and Dragons and... Dungeons and Dragons.
There are certainly games that will be easier, and likely better, in one system or the other, but those differences in the game are, in my experience, far less meaningful than the differences that we fabricate, just to create the sense of contrast we require.
JP: What will happen to AoA when 5e came out?
TA: There are no plans here. It would really depend on what Baldman Games wanted to do, what the differences in the edition would be, what Wizards would prefer, what OP would look like, what we wanted to do, how the campaign was being received... too many variables for any of us to worry.
JP: At the risk of starting another edition war thread... Do you think Essentials is a 4.5 edition?
TA: It clearly isn't the same as 3.5 was to 3.0. Those editions changed many fundamental aspects that really forced you to "upgrade". Can you count the number of people that kept using their PHB 3.0 once they had the 3.5 version? For a while I had no idea when I was judging a player with an Essentials PC or a "classic" one. That doesn't sound like a new version of the game. The numbers of people still using content from the 4E PH are countless! That said, I do think all of 4E has suffered from poor marketing communications. Essentials is some of the best work WotC has done writing-wise (great flavor!) and products like Monster Vault and Neverwinter Campaign Setting (which could easily have been bloat) are amongst the best D&D has _ever_ seen. I've heard many say that the reception to Essentials would have been better if it had actually been the initial offering for 4E, because it is a bit closer in design to 3E. I can see that, even while liking the original 4E design.
CB: The term `4.5' really has two possible meanings: either it's an analogy to 3.0/3.5 - in which case the answer is "nope" - or it's a reference to software versions, - in which case the answer is "kinda, although 4.4 is more accurate". Even the term `Essentials' is far from well understood at this point, having been smeared well beyond its original "These specific 10 products".
Monster Manual 3 kicked off a clear change in design ethos for the game, aimed primarily at diminishing the `boring grind' that could - and did! - happen. This design change continued through several products (including the Dark Sun Campaign Setting and Dark Sun Creature Catalog), but really hit home with the players in the two `Heroes of the...' books. In terms of changing the game, though? Essentials is less of a change than 3.5 was to 3rd edition. It's less of a change than the Complete foo Handbooks were to 2e AD&D, and *waaay* less of a change than the "Player's Option" series.
JP: I made predictions of doom about 5e at Gencon 2012 (5e or "Advanced Dungeons and Dragons). Do you have any insight on that? Any thoughts? Any secret knowledge you can share?
CB: I don't expect 5e to come out in 2012, but I would love to see it announced there, if not sooner. I think that WotC took several large risks in 4e, and have learned a tremendous amount since the launch, and I'd love to see a new edition.
TA: (To be clear, all of my answers are my own, not secret, and not those of any other person or organization.) I have also in the past told my friends I thought it could be 2012, though I wasn't sure if it would be announced or released at Gen Con. That was before Essentials was released, though, which could extend the time frame. What makes prediction so hard is that we don't know the financials. Encounters seem to be doing really well. RPGA play at Gen Con and at PAX was huge in 2011. DDI memberships seem likely to be really lucrative. While there has been some exhaustion of the design space (the guessable sourcebooks have been released), the latest offerings are great... Gardmore Abbey is a fantastic super-adventure with lots of innovation. There is a mix of those that want to see 5E and those that want to see 4E go longer. My bottom line is that I really like what WotC has been doing in 2011. I suspect I will really like 5E whenever it comes out. If I had to make a prediction, it would be that the game will allow players to consume content differently so that more players are buying things more often. I know players criticize things like Fortune Cards, but it is important to understand that there is no clearly profitable RPG company in the history of our hobby. Some of the ones that were heralded for fiscal intelligence (like FASA) have fallen by the wayside. No one has truly conquered the problem of one DM that owns lots of stuff and most players not owning more than one book. Compare what most players pay for WoW to what they spend on D&D. Paizo's subscriptions and WotC's DDI are a step in that direction. We will surely see more. What I love is that both Paizo and WotC clearly love the game. They aren't willing to sell out the game we all love for profit.
TA: Let me turn the tables on you, JP. What is next for Pathfinder? It has been a few years and they show good growth, but third edition is 11 years old. While Paizo made some revisions, can they continue to retain the old guard that has played such a similar game for so long? Can they continue to bring in enough new players? With some of the released material looking like the basic story of Golarion is told and obvious sourcebooks already written, will Paizo need to consider something along the lines of a new edition? How can that be done under the current license?
JP: Turn the tables! Preposterous!
But fair enough... That is a valid question! I cannot speak for Paizo any more than you guy speak for WotC. One element that Paizo has done very well so far is to release fewer core elements, and really focus on their adventure line through their adventure paths and their modules series. So while there are a LOT of products for Pathfinder, most of it is adventure, and we all know, there are never enough adventures.
About their setting, yes, I believe they may reach a point where everything has been said and done, and at that point, they will either come up with a new completely new setting, OR bring out Pathfinder 2e. But the way they have their release set up I don’t expect this until a number of years down the road... Yes folk, I did say Pathfinder 2e. But it’s like 5e, you know it’ll come. Though I expect PF2 MUCH later than 5e (or dare I say it, 6e?)
But Paizo has different lines: core rules, adventure paths, modules, Pathfinder Society people and fiction. Each has different people running them and they are pretty good at what they do. This creates a MUCH larger pool of people working and thinking for the same game world. The way Golarion is set, I’d be surprised to see them running out of ideas.
When I started working on NeoExodus with LPJ Design, that was one of the big issues: how to make it different from Golarion? (I have a big blog post series on it) Erik Mona has stated publicly that Golarion is pretty much "frozen in time" that it will not get a "five years later" update. Which has a lot of good things going for it, but as you say, does limit certain things.
To answer the question, this year, we will see the coming of the Tian Xia, their Asian setting come out. I can see a book on the planes (Ultimate Planes), more monster books, a "north American" continent (like Maztica) being discovered (or re-discovered), with supporting adventure path and sourcebooks. With their current release schedule... That could last them quite a few years. And with the PRD behind them, Third-Party Publishers can continue to produce material for the game (adventures, settings) that will keep their core line in business for a while.
That a fair answer?
TA: A big wish for me: What if for 5E Paizo and WotC could combine forces once more? It may sound nuts to fans, but the designers for each game are all in each other's home campaigns...
JP thinks about it a while...
JP: I doubt that will happen, but it is a nice idea... I would love to see Pathfinder adaptation of some of WotC’s OP (Dark Sun comes to mind), though that’s little more than a pipe dream... Home game maybe?
JP dreams for a second...
JP: Talking Dark Sun... what do you think makes 4e a good choice for that campaign setting?
TA: Dark Sun is filled with larger-than life Conan and Barsoom-style combat. This works really well in 4E. You don't just hit things with your axe. You break it on their head, pick up their weapon, then call to the elements before charging the next guy with a special power. I'm immensely happy with how Dark Sun plays in 4E. As a deep fan of the old material, this is better. Come play some Ashes of Athas with us!
(Please let your friend know he can't legally do that unless for personal use. You can't distribute setting under the OGL!
CB: I'll add that the role structure in 4e has proved to be even better than 2e for Dark Sun in a bunch of ways. The addition of several healers that aren't divine is awesome! There's no more need for the wonky `elemental vortexes'! The psionics system is usable without being hand-hacked by every individual DM! We don't need a 50-page Open/Closed/Banned list! 4e is great for Dark Sun. As Teos says, come give it a try!
JP: That was great! Thanks for taking the time to do this... I learned more and am quite intrigued by the product...
PS: For the first time, Ashes of Athas is going to be on the program at Genghis Con
This morning, I was fully decided to publish part 2 of my chat with Teos and Chad. I also thought about posting about the Gamers' Haven auction on Saturday (you will see all the new minis I won here). But as I sat on my chair at work this morning, my twitter feed (@jpongaming) and other sources were a blur of activity with the news that 5e was coming out. So I have to post about that.
Today, the internet is abuzz with the news of 5e being worked on. Once again, a Prediction of DoomTM has come to pass. I promised you here that 4e would be dead an buried by Gencon 2013. I also talked about the dream team rebuild Wizards was getting together here.
I think Wizards are on the right track on a number of things:
Things I would like to see:
I think Wizards has it wrong or should be wary about:
Upon release, it will be the biggest release yet. Sales will skyrocket as everyone will try to get their copies to try it out. The question is: how many of these people remain a year later? What about two years later? So far, 4e failed the 2 year anniversary (Essentials) while Pathfinder is still going strong. I have faith in Monte Cooke to provide a good, solid product.
It's like everyone who is chatting to me (outside my non-gamer family) is asking me that question. The short answer: nothing. It serves Paizo little in blasting or starting an Edition War. I suspect Paizo will do what they do best: come up with some great products that sell on the basis of their awesomeness.
At this point, unless WotC makes D&D a retro-clone (which would greatly surprise me), I consider D&D4e+ and D&D1-3.5/Pathfinder to be completely different games. This makes the competition between Pathfinder/ 5e the same as the competition between Shadowrun, D&D, Palladium and Pathfinder: the competition is for players' time. A good product generates interest, a bad or aging sees its stock drop in the community.
I am cautiously optimistic about the whole deal. I want to see 5e succeed but fear it may get squashed in the WotC bureaucratic crap. There is little that is known so far other than to promote the fact that 5e will be community-driven. Although they will be running 5e games at D&DXP, which makes me think they already have a very extensive framework laid out for 5e.
I am not very trusting in anything Wizards say. experience have shown that they are great at saying what people want to hear, but the delivery is... Well like a politician. Their "Community Involvement" as play testers become known slowly (look around, it's not hard to figure who pt'd). I think it's a smokescreen and that the book is almost on the printers.
So there it is. I am cautiously optimistic with 5e.
We'll see.
JP
From time to time, the world of Twitter (follow me @jpon) brings me something that I just HAVE to respond to.
This morning I got up on the wrong side of the bed. I'm grumpy today (okay stop the wise cracks about me being constantly grumpy). When I got to the office, grumbling about not having coffee, I went through my backlog twitter feedback and I came across the following tweets by Stan! (@stannex) which somehow caught me by surprise. I was not only surprised but hopeful at the same time... Odd feeling for a cynic like myself.
Here are the two tweets that caught my eye (hashtags removed).
| I'm told it's OK to tell you that today I went to work AT Wizards of the Coast for the first time since 2002. Pretty cool for a Monday. |
| Just so rumors don't fly, I'm NOT at WotC in a design capacity. I'm there as a Producer, shepherding projects thru the creation process. |
Okay... so let's recap what happened recently from WotC... First they get Monte Cook, then they get Stan! as a publisher to lead creation process. That really looks like a changing of the (new) guard and a return of the many heads that allowed Wizards to reach the summit of their control of the industry: the early 2000s. Stan's (even if temporary) work at Wizards adds even more weight to my Predictions of doomTM. I have had the chance to sit and talk to him a little at PaizoCon... Stan has to be one of the most creative person there is. Unless the WotC designers are complete idiots (which I do not believe they are), they will take advantage of this great resource.
Since Stan makes sure to let us know that he is not working as a developer but someone who "shepherds the creation process". This seems to me like they have a number of half-formed or incomplete projects they want to hammer out, complete and get off the plate. He can direct and expand projects that have been lying around for a while. This would allow WotC to have a number of products "almost ready" they could release over a time period while they put their designers and developers' brain to work on what we all know is coming sooner rather than later... This would allow WotC to have a revenue stream while they work through the chinks of their next big thing.
I frequently do that when I write. I jot down an idea. A block or two. A feat. A plot hook. An encounter design. Then I leave it be. It allows me to focus on the project at hand while keeping track of other ideas. After the current project is done, I go back, expand and develop. For example, while I was writing the NeoExodus Campaign Book. I have created no less than five other files with elements I thought should not go in there. This included a file full of feats, one of spells, one of monsters and one with some miscellaneous adventure ideas. Of these, Louis and I are planning an "NeoExodus Players' Guide" and a monster book called "Scions of the First Ones" for much later down the road. The names are VERY LIKELY to change, but elements for both already exist.
But back to the topic at hand...
The WotC guys have been VERY active on the twitterverse trying to get people to send them ideas and hints about what people want to see in their game. Its interesting to see the change of tone coming from them. From the early 4e day "everything else is crap but 4e" to the more community minded "what elements do you like in your game?" I see this shift as a positive sign. Good. They seem to have learned their lesson from the 4e PR debacle. Hopefully, they don't just listen to people who like what they do, but to some of the naysayers too. Naysayers frequently tell you more about your product (or force you to rethink your position, moreso than the "it's cool"s and "I like"s). Like when you go to Ebay, how many times do you read the positive comments vs. the negatives ones? I never read the positive reviews. Never. With this shift in approach, the guys may be changing the perception of the community towards WotC (or maybe that's just me) and getting ready for a big announcement.
The only thing they could be gearing up toward is... 5e.
The pieces are falling into place... What was a rant a few month ago is now becoming a road map of what we are seeing... One could almost say predictions of doom are seeing the stars align.
Maybe my mad rantings were not so wrong.
I would say... so right?
JP
All this week, the internet and was abuzz with the news of Monte Cook returning to Wizards of the Coast. Fans on all side of the edition war see this as a big announcement, something that will completely change the RPG world. His return will bring a new era of peace and prosperity, something that will end the edition war because of his return. Because he is back, suddenly 4e will become the top game it was during 2008-10.
I don't think so.
Monte has done a LOT of things for the RPG industry. He is a great rules thinker, someone who approaches the game from a rules perspective, with ideas that are definitely "outside the box". Yes. he wrote game settings and a few adventures, but I would not classify those as his major achievements. Rethinking and rehashing rules in new and novel ways is the biggest impact he has on the game. Nothing against Monte, but his return to WotC will not make me fly to buy 4e products, nor do I think lines will be forming at local stores to get the products. That would be like calling a plumber to save the Titanic.
A word of caution. For those who expect to enter their local game store tomorrow and find that 4e has been completely redone and that it is completely different will be in for a sad disappointment... First off, books take a while to write, edit, review and publish. I would expect to find a number of new books where Monte participates relatively quickly, to show the fan base how involved he is. But that would be little more than a smokescreen. It would allow Monte and the D&D designers to work on 5e. I would expect to see a lot of new approaches to 4e paradigms. Similar to what we saw with the Book of Nine Swords in 3.5 (I shudder just thinking about that book, god I hated that book).
But WotC isn't stupid. They are not calling the plumber. With Monte, they are recalling the engineers who built the USS Enterprise (whichever one you want it to be). I have to admit that, like many on the internet, I believe that Monte's return heralds - or mostly confirms the future coming of 5e/AD&D. With Monte's addition, the game will go in new directions, and likely have a chance to retake the first seat in the RPG industry.
Monte posted on his blog where he asks people not to speculate about what he is going to do at WotC. I mean COME ON MONTE! The gaming industry is not big enough that we cannot guess what you will be doing. Dr. Phil says it best "Past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior". As a (NFL) football fan, I would not hire Peyton Manning an put him to play defense (if you don't know who Peyton Manning is Google his name). We are talking about a rule-thinking genius and game-design superstar.
What would YOU ask him to do?
Monte may not want to be drawn into the edition war, but by going to WotC, he took sides in it, and us bloggers will post, analyze, guess and react to such an announcement from whatever sides we are one. While many have given up on 4e, we have not given up on WotC. 5e is that one glimmer of hope we still hold on to. With Monte, WotC have a stud to take them to that finish line. Since he spent most of his time in the 3.5 side of things, he might bring to WotC some of what people wanted to see out of 4e but did not get. I have been reading a number of other blogs that discuss this at length and most people agree. Monte might be the final nail in 4e's coffin. I won't cry over the poor, dead corpse of .
Why am I, a well-known edition flamer, happy about this announcement, then?
Competition.
Yep. Competition brings out the best in people. With 4e the way it's been going down in flames like it has, I have the impression that WotC gave up on the edition war. They put their money and time in the Neverwinter campaign setting (which I never opened, as I do not open 4e books). It felt like they gave Paizo the crown and phoned it in. Why that may seem to be good news, a strong WotC will push my Paizo overlords to outshine themselves and come up with new and innovative products to keep their top seat.
Which in turns means that *I* will get better products.
Welcome back to Wizards, Monte!
JP
When last we left Jay, he was telling us that he was writing all 11 rounds of adventure for the first year of Living Divine. Without any further introduction, let’s go back to Jay.
JP: When you say campaign year… Is it real-time year or Gencon-to-Gencon?
JB: Real-time year.
JP: In an average week, roughly how much time do you devote to campaign-related duties?
JB: At least 40 hours, or so. It's easily a second career.
JP: A difficult one: I give you a magic wand and you can only use it to make your campaign better. What do you do?
JB: I'd save it for a rainy day. It may sound cheesy, but we are exactly where I want us to be, at this point. Wherever I've seen changes I've wanted to make, I've been able to just make them. It's a great benefit of being completely autonomous.
JP: Play, GM or write? Which do you enjoy best?
JB: Writing. You may as well ask a fish why he swims. It's just what I do, and what I've always done.
Over the years, I've had hundreds of folks come up to me and say 'I'm buying you a beer, I had so much fun'. There is no greater feeling than that... knowing that you were able to hit the mark, that solidly. And while I'll never knock GMing, your audience is, at most, a half-dozen folks at a time. But take pen to paper, and that table becomes a room of tables, and a schedule of conventions. It's utterly amazing!
And hey, free beer!
JP: Do you have any links of websites where people might learn more about the campaign?
JB:Our site is http://www.viceandvillainy.org/LivingDivine/
At the moment, we're transitioning the site from a sneak-preview version to the full campaign version.
Also of note is the Living Divine Facebook page which has a LOT of good stuff. (https://www.facebook.com/LivingDivine) Among which is some art like the one at the beginning of this article (used here with permission), I found both disturbing and interesting at the same time. These are taken from flash animations that should come out with the finalized campaign website. I'm quite intrigued I must say.
JP: How do you plan on distributing the adventures? Will you sell them or simply make them available for download?
JB: We will be selling them - and already are. All the details will be on our new, finalized website..
JP: Why did you choose 4e? Wouldn't it make more sense to go with a growing system like Pathfinder?
JB: I'm not interested in having an edition debate with you. I don't share your obvious prejudice.
That said, we have extended an open invitation to anyone who wants to come in, and translate our materials to the Pathfinder (or any other) system. So far, those that have considered it have talked big but never stepped up to the plate.
JP: Translating stuff from one game to the other doesn’t work well IMO. There will always be a lame duck. Since game rules are part of the adventure and encounter design, you can’t just translate from one to the other. Skill Challenges are a good example: something very unique to 4e that kinda works in Pathfinder. Encounters that mix traps with combats generally mesh better in 4e. Is that mix of encounter something that pushed you to 4e or just a personal choice?
JB: We weren't pushed to 4e. My games will always stay with the latest D&D rule set, as long as I am still as deeply involved with the RPGA/BMG community as I am. It wouldn't be possible to do both, otherwise.
JP: You really think the 4e community is growing? REALLY? Locally it’s being kept alive by a few highly dedicated volunteers and re-players. Any insight?
JB: I'm privy to numbers on the national level. In that context, they are growing rather dramatically.
That said, I know there is a decent contingent of folks that like 4e, but have grown tired of Living Forgotten Realms. That crowd is making LD and AoA flourish, rather nicely. We've been managing to pull some of them back to the game.
AoA is Ashes of Athas, another organized play campaign. Teos and Chad who run the campaign will be interviewed in a later installment of this series.
JP: I went on the record saying that 5e is coming at Gencon 2012 (announcement). What are your thoughts about that?
JB: Folks said that last year, too. Eventually, they'll surely be right.
JP: When do you expect 5e to come out? Any secret info?
JB: If I had such info, I would be under NDA, and thus unable to say anything. So it's a pointless question.
JP: AH There it is again! The NDA MONSTER… you have NO Idea how often it sneaks up on me.
JB: Believe me, I do. I've been on both sides of them, more times than I care to count.
JP: What impact do you foresee a future edition having on the Campaign? Is that something you considered?
JB: Sure, we've considered it on a high level. We'll probably go with whatever is the current edition is... it's the audience we want to cater to. No different than if a campaign chose the Pathfinder system - they'd likely want to stick with the latest edition.
JP: Thanks Jay! Frank discussion… I expected nothing less. It was very fun. I’m a bit sad that there isn’t a Pathfinder version (yet) of Living Divine, because I really liked your Bissel stuff. I can keep praying (just like I pray for a Pathfinder version of Heroes of Arcanis)…
JB: Praying won't make it happen. We don't have any die-hard, skilled Pathfinder folks on our staff... so we won't attempt a translation on our own. We'd only do it if we thought it'd be done right.
JP: I can’t say I’ll try it myself (4e is something I gave up long ago and have no interest in picking up again, and I’m too much of a do-what-you-say kinda guy to lie). I leave the final word to you.
JB: Spork!
I spoke to Jay many times before I got to meet him face to face. As we were both Triads, we frequently talked. Like me, Jay was chosen to be an admin for Living Forgotten Realms. He quit long before I did. Still, he and I kept in touch.
Unlike myself, Jay took a liking to 4e. Me on the other had… Yeah…
Then the other day as I began thinking about this series, my good friend Lenny (shout-out) comes out and tells me that “some guy” was setting up a new campaign called Living Divine. So I did a quick Google search a who shows up? That’s right Jay’s name! I got on instant messenger and immediately contacted him and arranged to have him in my series of interviews.
Turns out his campaign kicked off at Gencon this year! Now I want to know more…
JP: Hi Jay! Glad you agreed to do this interview. Can you tell us a bit more about who you are? What about your RPG history?
JB: Well, let's see... I started playing RPGs when I was 8 and started running at gaming conventions when I was 11... In fact, I've judged or staffed that particular convention for every year of its existence, since then: some twenty-odd years.
I was part of the founding of my first organized gaming group in 1994. That group - now known as the Vice & Villainy Gaming Guild - still meets and games every week.
I was an Ancient Seer in Ultima Online's interest program for three years, running a team that created storylines and put on quests for that game world.
I helped put together the Aurora program in Eve Online - also tasked with creating quests and game content - participated for six months, and then took over and ran the program for two more years.
I was an active player and author for the Living City campaign.
I served as Triad for the Bissel region (New England) for five years, right up to the end of the campaign. My primary position was convention support, and at peak, I was staffing 16 conventions per year.
I work for Baldman Games, the company that runs D&D Experience and the RPGA events at Origins and GenCon. I serve as head marshal for those three major conventions.
The biggest line item on my resume, I suppose, is my writing. I have been the primary author or co-author on 242 rounds of RPGA and Living Divine scenarios. It's been speculated that I am the most prolific author in the history of the RPGA, but I'm not really interested in titles... just in keeping people entertained.
So... you might say I'm a gamer.
JP: You mentioned Baldman Games (BMG)… Is that Dave Christ’s organization?
JB: It is his company.
JP: I saw that BMG branched into some OP stuff with Ashes of Athas
JB: It is an excellent campaign, that I consider the spiritual sister to LD: I think we've got a lot of the same 'right' ideas in mind, and it's been marvelous to see how we've handled various issues that affect both campaigns.
I would recommend 4e to anyone and everyone. It's really a great body of work.
JP: Is Living Divine linked to BMG at all?
JB: Sure. We run under the Baldman banner at the three big cons, and I work closely with Dave Christ to make that all happen.
JP: What is your official title in the campaign?
JB: I am the owner of the Living Divine Campaign, and also one of the three Council of Elders members (our top-level, global administrators).
JP: What draws you to 4e in question? What particularly attracts you to that game?
JB: I'd say I'm less drawn to the particular game system, and more drawn to the community. I've been working with some of these folks for two decades. They could switch to Chutes and Ladders, and I'd stick with them. (I wouldn't recommend it, though... the level progression is HORRIBLY unbalanced).
That said, I've found that 4e is fine for our needs. Sure, it has pros and cons, just like every other system. It's no better or worse than any other system, at large. And, knowing that it was our target platform, we designed our campaign to work with it. If we were intent on using, say, Pathfinder, we would have worked things together differently, to accentuate some of its strengths.
JP: What is your favorite RPG game of all times?
JB: Spycraft, 1st edition. It is just a fantastic game that can be a ton of fun with the right group. And unlike many of its cousins, no one player-character can really be the star. You have to work together as a team, or you are sunk. Combine that with a fun, fast-paced action-adventure setting, and it's just dynamite.
JP: Your favorite supplement/ adventure?
JB: I don't think, in all fairness, that I could name one as my favorite... or even five, for that matter. I've enjoyed quite a few adventures, settings, and supplements over the years, all with their own bits to love.
JP: Okay then… can you name one that you REALLY did *NOT* like?
JB: One that comes to mind is a now-former OP campaign. I will leave it unnamed, as while the campaign is gone, the folks behind it are still around, and I would not like to start any bad blood.
I was introduced to this campaign by a few folks that were really into it. I lovingly crafted a rich, vibrant character, and sat down to play. I soon realized that to really do anything in the game, you had to take Character Option A or B, or know about in-game events X, Y, and Z, or be a part of Organization Q. My own character really didn't matter. As a new player to the campaign, I was all but useless - and worse, I was bored.
I was not easily deterred. I tried a few scenarios, with different groups. And got the exact same results. I decided that it just wasn't for me.
Years later, I've heard the exact same story from others. Apparently, the campaign was massively popular... if you got involved early on, and stuck with it. If you tried to get in, in the middle, you had no chance.
What I will say is that the experience helped flavor everything I've put together, since.
JP: What are the high points of a home game you run?
JB: I love it when my players are very truly and obviously invested in what's going on, when they can't wait for the next play-session, the next installment. When the compulsive i-phone gamer puts his phone away, when the guy that never pays attention is glued to the table, when the casual gamer whines that he has to wait until next week to learn who shot JR, and whether the bloody glove will fit.
That is a great moment.
JP: What elements do you particularly enjoy in a campaign?
JB: I think my favorite aspect is originality. Don't give me Tolkien elves and dwarves... it's been done, and done to death. Tell me that the elves are the local organized crime. Tell me that the dwarves are the local trade union, striking until their demands are met.
JP: You really need to check out NeoExodus from LPJ Design, then… those are some of the premises I put on myself… Yeah, yeah, I know. This is a shameless plug. I do share your view on that. “Traditional elements” of fantasy need to be revisited.
JB: I promise to check it out, as soon as I have free time. =)
JP: How does Living Divine address the traditional fantasy? Any new races? New spins of existing ones?
JB: Everything in our world is custom tailored to our needs... from the setting and the roles of our PCs, to our monsters. Nothing is cookie cutter.
JP: What would you say are elements that define your writing style? What elements would I expect to find in one of your adventures?
JB: I tend to use a lot of dark humor, often making light of situations that really shouldn't be funny.
I tend to favor the mundane over the fantastical. I hate when fantastic elements become mundane... it ruins the experience for me. When you meet a dragon in my world, I want you to go 'Oh wow, a dragon! Be careful, guys!'... Not 'Oh, yawn... another dragon'.
I tend to use a lot of symbolism and thematic tropes. For instance, in the Bissel days, the weather would generally turn foul while the PCs were heading off on a doomed quest. The worst the weather, the worse things were going to turn out.
JP: That is a great idea… I might steal that for my own stuff!
JB: If you do, then you are doing it wrong. Come up with your own, and institute it from the ground up. You need to really 'make it your own' for it to really work.
JP looks slightly annoyed at this.
JP: Please, continue your thoughts on a “Jay-style” adventure?
JB:Finally, I favor difficult adventures. Not 'kill your character, there is no hope' difficult... rather, I want you to have to work for your successes. I want you to walk out of the climax of my scenarios saying 'Oh, wow... that was tough! I can't believe we survived!' To me, that is the Holy Grail.
JP: I totally agree with you here… I love telling my players that “once you reach the top of Mount Doom, are barely breathing from damage and the environment and are about to throw the Ring into the fire…” That’s when the helpful NPC turns on you and forces you into a major fight.
JB: *nods*
JP: What would you tell those out there about your campaign?
In the world of Living Divine, there are no 'real gods' in the heavens. Rather, every once in a while, a creature is born among mortals with the divine spark. You, the player characters, are among these living immortals, walking the earth, attracting followers, raising armies and empires, fighting for power and survival.
Living Divine is more story-oriented and character-centric, and less focused on combat, than most organized play campaigns.
JP: How does that divine spark manifests? Is it just the fact that they are PCs? Or is there something more?
JB: There is much, much more. A small part of it is that the only real classed characters are gods (mortals just don't have that sort of ability), but it goes well beyond that. In fact, a major theme of the campaign is coming to terms with just what that divinity means.
JP: Why is your campaign the best there is?
JB: It's not. It's simply the one I want to run.
However, some of our players think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread; the prevailing opinion seems to be because we put the focus back on storytelling - whether it's us telling our story, or you telling that of your character.
JP: Why do you think a complete newcomer to organized play should join your OP?
JB: I don't. I would actively discourage it. From the beginning, I've billed LD as 'for mature gamers', and I mean it.
For instance, our campaign uses permadeath: a much harsher penalty than any other OP campaign I'm aware of. An inexperienced gamer is going to have to spend a lot more effort on the rules, just to survive... which means the story and roleplaying end of things will suffer. If they lose their focus, and drift too far towards the roleplaying end of the spectrum, survival will be that much harder.
But, of course, your mileage may vary.
JP: Permadeath… That is when your character is permanently removed from play? Can you expand a little on that? The term is very cool, and definitely grabs my attention.
JB: That is correct. When you die in Living Divine, you are dead for good. There is no 'raise dead' for immortals in the campaign. You weigh risks differently when there is really something on the line.
It also means there is no temptation to have reoccurring dead-again-live-again NPCs. They play by all the same rules.
JP: Why should an old grumpy player - yes. think of me as that grumpy old troll - what is the biggest strength of the campaign?
JB: It's a unique setting... a unique story. It's a different, fresh take on a game that's been around forever, that's been part of our lives, of our cultural fabric.
JP: How did you become a campaign administrator? Why?
JB: *chuckle*
I simply made it happen. LD has been my baby, from the ground up. I just decided 'this is what I'm going to do', and made it happen. That said, my original intention was to create something much smaller... and this beast is MUCH bigger than that. Somewhere along the way I caught the attention and interest of a few other folks... and here we are.
JP: What are you main duties as part of the campaign?
JB: I'm writing all 11 rounds of scenarios for the first year of the campaign. I've created the vast majority of our rules set. I'm recruiting, vetting, and training regional admins for the future years of the campaign. Every document that goes out crosses my desk for editing. And then there are all the details... financials, convention coordination, publishing, advertising, licensing.
JP: Wow! That is a lot… Eleven rounds, you sir, are a beast…
JB: I try. =)
And we've actually been ahead of schedule. Our first three scenarios were available for sneak previews, early in the year. The next three are premiering at GenCon (and are 88% sold out, as I type this!). The final three and the two-round year-end special will be out for the end of the year.
Our conversation goes on for quite a while, so I split this interview into two parts. Since next Monday is Labor Day Weekend, the next part of the series will come out on Sept 12, with the conclusion of my interview with Jay.
JP
